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	<title>Comments on: Instructional technology and college education</title>
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		<title>By: mareserinitatis</title>
		<link>http://expbook.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/instructional-technology-and-college-education/#comment-2919</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mareserinitatis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2012 15:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://expbook.wordpress.com/?p=8527#comment-2919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, it&#039;s not computer based, but MIT is completely getting rid of lecture courses for freshman physics and moving to a completely interactive lab-type structure: http://icampus.mit.edu/projects/TEAL.shtml]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s not computer based, but MIT is completely getting rid of lecture courses for freshman physics and moving to a completely interactive lab-type structure: <a href="http://icampus.mit.edu/projects/TEAL.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://icampus.mit.edu/projects/TEAL.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: mareserinitatis</title>
		<link>http://expbook.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/instructional-technology-and-college-education/#comment-2918</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mareserinitatis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2012 14:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://expbook.wordpress.com/?p=8527#comment-2918</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re being pedantic now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re being pedantic now.</p>
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		<title>By: Massimo</title>
		<link>http://expbook.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/instructional-technology-and-college-education/#comment-2917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Massimo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2012 14:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://expbook.wordpress.com/?p=8527#comment-2917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was not aware that there is now solid research showing that online education is superior to classroom teaching for the vast majority of students (I assume that at Stanford they no longer offer classroom-based math courses -- it would make no sense to have continued, given that online courses work better). I am surprised that classroom-based education still exists at all, and that so many of us still believe that it is better -- but I am sure society will soon abandon this useless relic of a time past, and embrace the more effective online education.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was not aware that there is now solid research showing that online education is superior to classroom teaching for the vast majority of students (I assume that at Stanford they no longer offer classroom-based math courses &#8212; it would make no sense to have continued, given that online courses work better). I am surprised that classroom-based education still exists at all, and that so many of us still believe that it is better &#8212; but I am sure society will soon abandon this useless relic of a time past, and embrace the more effective online education.</p>
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		<title>By: mareserinitatis</title>
		<link>http://expbook.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/instructional-technology-and-college-education/#comment-2916</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mareserinitatis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2012 13:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://expbook.wordpress.com/?p=8527#comment-2916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you really want to look into it, Stanford&#039;s EPGY program began offering their math courses to public school systems, and these systems found that it worked very well for students across the board, but particularly benefitted the top quartile of students: http://epgy.stanford.edu/research/Final%203%20Effectiveness%20Study%20Report%207.18.09.pdf  (Also, they&#039;ve done a lot of other research on computer-based education, dating back to the 60s, which you can read about here: http://epgy.stanford.edu/research/index.html

My observation with both of my children is that their math abilities increased far more using computer-based education versus sitting in a classroom.  They each used different programs.  My older boy used one which communicated the lessons primarily as text, while the younger one uses the Stanford program, which communicates information through &#039;mini-lectures&#039; with accompanying visuals.  Each of them has been, on average, at least 3 years ahead of their peers in math once they began working on those programs.  Before that, they were often less than a year ahead.  Because they could work at their own pace on developmentally appropriate material, they were able to accelerate significantly.

What I&#039;m saying is that students do not learn by sitting in classrooms...students learn by actively engaging in the material, and lectures are the worst way to learn.  Computers may not be the best way to learn, but they often are better than lectures.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you really want to look into it, Stanford&#8217;s EPGY program began offering their math courses to public school systems, and these systems found that it worked very well for students across the board, but particularly benefitted the top quartile of students: <a href="http://epgy.stanford.edu/research/Final%203%20Effectiveness%20Study%20Report%207.18.09.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://epgy.stanford.edu/research/Final%203%20Effectiveness%20Study%20Report%207.18.09.pdf</a>  (Also, they&#8217;ve done a lot of other research on computer-based education, dating back to the 60s, which you can read about here: <a href="http://epgy.stanford.edu/research/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://epgy.stanford.edu/research/index.html</a></p>
<p>My observation with both of my children is that their math abilities increased far more using computer-based education versus sitting in a classroom.  They each used different programs.  My older boy used one which communicated the lessons primarily as text, while the younger one uses the Stanford program, which communicates information through &#8216;mini-lectures&#8217; with accompanying visuals.  Each of them has been, on average, at least 3 years ahead of their peers in math once they began working on those programs.  Before that, they were often less than a year ahead.  Because they could work at their own pace on developmentally appropriate material, they were able to accelerate significantly.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m saying is that students do not learn by sitting in classrooms&#8230;students learn by actively engaging in the material, and lectures are the worst way to learn.  Computers may not be the best way to learn, but they often are better than lectures.</p>
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		<title>By: Massimo</title>
		<link>http://expbook.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/instructional-technology-and-college-education/#comment-2915</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Massimo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2012 13:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://expbook.wordpress.com/?p=8527#comment-2915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just so I am clear: are you saying that online education has been shown to be just as good as (if not better than) classroom teaching, across the board, &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; just in individual cases but &lt;i&gt;for the vast majority of students&lt;/i&gt; ? That if asked for advice, you would recommend any parent not to bother sending kids to college, just have them enrolled at some online university, because they will surely learn more ? 
That it makes no sense for states and provinces to keep funding higher education based on classroom teaching, that it would be an effective and appropriate cost saving measure to move to online delivery as much as possible -- there would be no need to hire teachers (I am sure administrators would keep their jobs) anymore, to build classrooms, dorms, campuses ? That classroom teaching should be left to private universities, if they really feel that it should be offered, but public education should be mostly, entirely online ?
That therefore administrations are justified in their push to &lt;b&gt;replace&lt;/b&gt; classroom teaching with online content ? Because &lt;b&gt;this&lt;/b&gt; is the point of the post. &lt;b&gt;No one&lt;/b&gt; here is questioning the offering of online content &lt;b&gt;in addition&lt;/b&gt;, or &lt;b&gt;as an aid&lt;/b&gt; to classroom teaching, even though in my experience the effectiveness of the former remains largely to be shown (again, I do not care about individual cases, we are talking about the majority of students here). 

Me, I happen to think that for a &quot;traditional&quot; university to offer &lt;i&gt;entirely online&lt;/i&gt; courses is absurd -- the &lt;i&gt;whole point&lt;/i&gt; of having a university in the first place is to have a campus, classrooms and humans as teachers. Those who see no value in that, who would rather take online courses, have already many online universities to pick from, no need for each public institution to duplicate that (&lt;b&gt;one&lt;/b&gt; would be enough -- it&#039;s online anyway). Either most students end up making that choice, in which case one can argue that traditional education has outlived its usefulness and should just be phased out, or the majority continue to believe that classroom teaching is superior, and that is how public colleges and universities should continue to operate. My opinion. My blog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just so I am clear: are you saying that online education has been shown to be just as good as (if not better than) classroom teaching, across the board, <b>not</b> just in individual cases but <i>for the vast majority of students</i> ? That if asked for advice, you would recommend any parent not to bother sending kids to college, just have them enrolled at some online university, because they will surely learn more ?<br />
That it makes no sense for states and provinces to keep funding higher education based on classroom teaching, that it would be an effective and appropriate cost saving measure to move to online delivery as much as possible &#8212; there would be no need to hire teachers (I am sure administrators would keep their jobs) anymore, to build classrooms, dorms, campuses ? That classroom teaching should be left to private universities, if they really feel that it should be offered, but public education should be mostly, entirely online ?<br />
That therefore administrations are justified in their push to <b>replace</b> classroom teaching with online content ? Because <b>this</b> is the point of the post. <b>No one</b> here is questioning the offering of online content <b>in addition</b>, or <b>as an aid</b> to classroom teaching, even though in my experience the effectiveness of the former remains largely to be shown (again, I do not care about individual cases, we are talking about the majority of students here). </p>
<p>Me, I happen to think that for a &#8220;traditional&#8221; university to offer <i>entirely online</i> courses is absurd &#8212; the <i>whole point</i> of having a university in the first place is to have a campus, classrooms and humans as teachers. Those who see no value in that, who would rather take online courses, have already many online universities to pick from, no need for each public institution to duplicate that (<b>one</b> would be enough &#8212; it&#8217;s online anyway). Either most students end up making that choice, in which case one can argue that traditional education has outlived its usefulness and should just be phased out, or the majority continue to believe that classroom teaching is superior, and that is how public colleges and universities should continue to operate. My opinion. My blog.</p>
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		<title>By: mareserinitatis</title>
		<link>http://expbook.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/instructional-technology-and-college-education/#comment-2914</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mareserinitatis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://expbook.wordpress.com/?p=8527#comment-2914</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What you said was that it was part of creating a two-tier system, and that online education would be part of the lower tier.  By saying people would be &quot;stuck&quot; with online content was a bad thing.

I&#039;ve had enough lousy lecturers as well as enough experience with my kids&#039; education through online courses to know that online content can be very beneficial, and in many cases, superior.  My one son takes accelerated online math classes through Stanford, and I can tell you that it&#039;s far better than what he might get through a lot of in-class lectures.  (There are few other places where a second grader can learn set theory, probability, and algebra.)  Even in on-line learning, there is still a person available at the other end to answer questions and help through rough spots.

There is *already* a two-tier system in place.  What I find interesting is that it&#039;s places like MIT, Harvard, and Stanford that are pushing this as much as anyone else.  How is this creating a two-tier system?  Also, this has already been the status quo for gifted elementary and secondary education through places like Stanford and Johns Hopkins universities for two decades.  It&#039;s got a pretty decent track record among younger students.  Universities are just late adopters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you said was that it was part of creating a two-tier system, and that online education would be part of the lower tier.  By saying people would be &#8220;stuck&#8221; with online content was a bad thing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had enough lousy lecturers as well as enough experience with my kids&#8217; education through online courses to know that online content can be very beneficial, and in many cases, superior.  My one son takes accelerated online math classes through Stanford, and I can tell you that it&#8217;s far better than what he might get through a lot of in-class lectures.  (There are few other places where a second grader can learn set theory, probability, and algebra.)  Even in on-line learning, there is still a person available at the other end to answer questions and help through rough spots.</p>
<p>There is *already* a two-tier system in place.  What I find interesting is that it&#8217;s places like MIT, Harvard, and Stanford that are pushing this as much as anyone else.  How is this creating a two-tier system?  Also, this has already been the status quo for gifted elementary and secondary education through places like Stanford and Johns Hopkins universities for two decades.  It&#8217;s got a pretty decent track record among younger students.  Universities are just late adopters.</p>
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		<title>By: Massimo</title>
		<link>http://expbook.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/instructional-technology-and-college-education/#comment-2913</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Massimo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2012 04:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://expbook.wordpress.com/?p=8527#comment-2913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think we are talking about two different things here. I have never said that all online education is inherently bad, though you seem to be attributing to me that extreme position, which I am not holding in the least. I am &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; disputing that online education may be the only/best option for &lt;b&gt;some&lt;/b&gt; -- but, from it being a valid option for &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt;, to it replacing classroom teaching for &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt;, there is a bit of a leap, don&#039;t you think ? 
&lt;i&gt;And&lt;/i&gt;, yes, it is a politically motivated push. Make no mistake, the moment you start accepting that it is all right to replace classroom teaching altogether with online videos, that human contact is no longer required, that all that matters is that piece of paper and there is no value at all to the campus experience, then at that point we might as well close down all public universities and replace them with university.com (except for the few privileged ones who will continue to pay top dollars for the education that seems to work best for the  majority).
There are some influential groups that cannot stomach the notion of &lt;b&gt;public&lt;/b&gt; university, &lt;b&gt;public&lt;/b&gt; health care, &lt;b&gt;public&lt;/b&gt; transportation, &lt;b&gt;public&lt;/b&gt; anything. They dislike the fact that college education, once a privilege of the wealthiest, has since the GI bill become accessible to &lt;b&gt;two thirds&lt;/b&gt; of the population in the US (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?year=2008&amp;level=nation&amp;mode=data&amp;state=0&amp;submeasure=63&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, for instance). 
They fall short of saying that they wish to see it go away, because it would not be popular, and therefore opt for the subtler strategy of trying to bring back society to pre-WWII levels by systematically dismantling public education, while pretending to fight to &quot;make it better&quot;. It&#039;s the rhetoric of school vouchers, of bloated administrations, of relentless cuts, and yes, of increased online delivery.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we are talking about two different things here. I have never said that all online education is inherently bad, though you seem to be attributing to me that extreme position, which I am not holding in the least. I am <b>not</b> disputing that online education may be the only/best option for <b>some</b> &#8212; but, from it being a valid option for <i>some</i>, to it replacing classroom teaching for <i>everyone</i>, there is a bit of a leap, don&#8217;t you think ?<br />
<i>And</i>, yes, it is a politically motivated push. Make no mistake, the moment you start accepting that it is all right to replace classroom teaching altogether with online videos, that human contact is no longer required, that all that matters is that piece of paper and there is no value at all to the campus experience, then at that point we might as well close down all public universities and replace them with university.com (except for the few privileged ones who will continue to pay top dollars for the education that seems to work best for the  majority).<br />
There are some influential groups that cannot stomach the notion of <b>public</b> university, <b>public</b> health care, <b>public</b> transportation, <b>public</b> anything. They dislike the fact that college education, once a privilege of the wealthiest, has since the GI bill become accessible to <b>two thirds</b> of the population in the US (see <a href="http://http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?year=2008&amp;level=nation&amp;mode=data&amp;state=0&amp;submeasure=63" rel="nofollow">here</a>, for instance).<br />
They fall short of saying that they wish to see it go away, because it would not be popular, and therefore opt for the subtler strategy of trying to bring back society to pre-WWII levels by systematically dismantling public education, while pretending to fight to &#8220;make it better&#8221;. It&#8217;s the rhetoric of school vouchers, of bloated administrations, of relentless cuts, and yes, of increased online delivery.</p>
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		<title>By: mareserinitatis</title>
		<link>http://expbook.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/instructional-technology-and-college-education/#comment-2912</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mareserinitatis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2012 03:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://expbook.wordpress.com/?p=8527#comment-2912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The thing is, at least online education is a lot easier for people who can&#039;t attend a traditional campus.  My mother was trying to go through school while she was working full-time and raising three kids.  She was told that she couldn&#039;t finish her degree unless she took time off from work to attend some classes which weren&#039;t offered in the evening....which her boss told her she couldn&#039;t do.  How does that help anyone?  What about my son, who can&#039;t go to the local university because they won&#039;t accept his GED, but can take online classes at a *better* college that will?  Or hearing impaired students who have a very difficult time in a lecture course but do just fine when most or all of the material is visually presented?  I don&#039;t know that it&#039;s downgrading education as much as democratizing it.  College has *always* been reserved for a very special subset of the population until recently, and I actually have a seen a lot of online classes that are far better than those offered in a traditional classroom.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, at least online education is a lot easier for people who can&#8217;t attend a traditional campus.  My mother was trying to go through school while she was working full-time and raising three kids.  She was told that she couldn&#8217;t finish her degree unless she took time off from work to attend some classes which weren&#8217;t offered in the evening&#8230;.which her boss told her she couldn&#8217;t do.  How does that help anyone?  What about my son, who can&#8217;t go to the local university because they won&#8217;t accept his GED, but can take online classes at a *better* college that will?  Or hearing impaired students who have a very difficult time in a lecture course but do just fine when most or all of the material is visually presented?  I don&#8217;t know that it&#8217;s downgrading education as much as democratizing it.  College has *always* been reserved for a very special subset of the population until recently, and I actually have a seen a lot of online classes that are far better than those offered in a traditional classroom.</p>
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		<title>By: Massimo</title>
		<link>http://expbook.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/instructional-technology-and-college-education/#comment-2911</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Massimo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://expbook.wordpress.com/?p=8527#comment-2911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s more than that. I see a subtle, sneaky attempt to downgrade public education, creating a two-tier system in which only an elite gets to go to very expensive, &quot;traditional&quot; colleges and universities (where instruction will be classroom-based, of course), while the rest, the vast majority, are stuck watching standardized online content.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s more than that. I see a subtle, sneaky attempt to downgrade public education, creating a two-tier system in which only an elite gets to go to very expensive, &#8220;traditional&#8221; colleges and universities (where instruction will be classroom-based, of course), while the rest, the vast majority, are stuck watching standardized online content.</p>
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		<title>By: A.M.</title>
		<link>http://expbook.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/instructional-technology-and-college-education/#comment-2910</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A.M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://expbook.wordpress.com/?p=8527#comment-2910</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I never realized what an absolute breeze my mid-90s (mostly tech-free) university experience was until I worked in technical support.  

Though there&#039;s classes online (fully online, hybrid, or just a syllabus slapped into a course shell), there&#039;s also the registration system, student accounts, financial aid and transcripts all online. And what a friggin mess. Glitches, bugs, and firewalls. Connectivity drops. Seemingly inscrutable error messages. But nothing really gnaws at the faculty/staff member and/or the student like the glitches, bugs, firewalls, connectivity drops, outdated plugins (which Firefox decides to block) and other incidents that affect the online classroom--all the time. 

And why? Because it&#039;s about grades, tuition money, honesty (&quot;Did you really submit that paper?&quot;), integrity (&quot;I really did submit the paper!&quot;), frustration, and frustration, and frustration. That&#039;s an awesome learning environment.

I&#039;m sure quite a few go on without a hitch (for most). Yet I&#039;ve wandered around in so many of these &quot;online classrooms&quot; wanting to tap on the screen at their interface. Is there really a &quot;classroom&quot; in there?

I dunno. I think they are mostly nifty as a repository for supplementary materials. Otherwise, it&#039;s like it&#039;s trapped. Boxed. Booked. 

Lastly, I was recently reading/watching the debate in The Chronicle of Higher Education about classroom technology and lecture &quot;fail&quot; when I started to think about how labor intensive it can be prepare lectures in the classroom and how labor intensive it is to build them online. And how university and college administrators may start to seek the &quot;best presentation&quot;. Then I realized we could very well end up in a future with standardized courses containing the most &quot;relevant&quot; materials distributed into online classrooms. Tried and tested videos! Totally remove the professor! Cost effective! Standardized! Validated learning outcomes! Nations of students all watching the same TV program! Or playing the same educational video game, to which you alluded.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never realized what an absolute breeze my mid-90s (mostly tech-free) university experience was until I worked in technical support.  </p>
<p>Though there&#8217;s classes online (fully online, hybrid, or just a syllabus slapped into a course shell), there&#8217;s also the registration system, student accounts, financial aid and transcripts all online. And what a friggin mess. Glitches, bugs, and firewalls. Connectivity drops. Seemingly inscrutable error messages. But nothing really gnaws at the faculty/staff member and/or the student like the glitches, bugs, firewalls, connectivity drops, outdated plugins (which Firefox decides to block) and other incidents that affect the online classroom&#8211;all the time. </p>
<p>And why? Because it&#8217;s about grades, tuition money, honesty (&#8220;Did you really submit that paper?&#8221;), integrity (&#8220;I really did submit the paper!&#8221;), frustration, and frustration, and frustration. That&#8217;s an awesome learning environment.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure quite a few go on without a hitch (for most). Yet I&#8217;ve wandered around in so many of these &#8220;online classrooms&#8221; wanting to tap on the screen at their interface. Is there really a &#8220;classroom&#8221; in there?</p>
<p>I dunno. I think they are mostly nifty as a repository for supplementary materials. Otherwise, it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s trapped. Boxed. Booked. </p>
<p>Lastly, I was recently reading/watching the debate in The Chronicle of Higher Education about classroom technology and lecture &#8220;fail&#8221; when I started to think about how labor intensive it can be prepare lectures in the classroom and how labor intensive it is to build them online. And how university and college administrators may start to seek the &#8220;best presentation&#8221;. Then I realized we could very well end up in a future with standardized courses containing the most &#8220;relevant&#8221; materials distributed into online classrooms. Tried and tested videos! Totally remove the professor! Cost effective! Standardized! Validated learning outcomes! Nations of students all watching the same TV program! Or playing the same educational video game, to which you alluded.</p>
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